Hello,

I noticed some time ago(2 weeks) after starting lfs in windows mode lfs states it is running at 100fps. But the visuals indicate it is clearly not. estimate the fps is 25 at maximun and lfs is nearly unplayable. Setting lfs full screen and back fixes the problem. It is not reproducible in the sense you get it everytime, but now and then lfs starts up with this framerate issue and going full screen and back fixes the problem. So i asume it is a bug in lfs or the graphics driver?

OS: vista 64 bit fully updated
directx 11
9.10 catalyst drivers
ati 4890
amd [email protected]
8gbyte mem 1333Mhz 6-6-6-22

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:35. Reason : improved memory timings a lot lately

Quote from LiveForBoobs :

When we use the handbrake, aren't the brake lights supposed to turn on? It always confused me seeing cars stopped on handbrake with all lights off, like they had the engine turned off. I suppose it wouldn't be hard to implement? Just a small observation, which i'm sure Scawen is aware of anyway.

On many cars brake lights also work when the engine is turned off. But handbrake has no effect on the lights.

So lfs, is correct at this point.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

Yeah I had no issues with Vista at all, although the superfetch on vista is supposed to be worse than Win7. Strange indeed

It can only be worse if microsoft is to intentionally not to update superfetch on vista anymore and thgus attempting to push windows7 as a better OS than vista, which it is not since they are the same.

Currently it requires an registry change to get directx11 om vista via windows update, because microsoft is hiding this update for vista users. But why... we can only guess...

Quote from jasonmatthews :

Windows 7 64 bit, build 7600. Below is a pic of my memory, if you use Superfetch, your cached memory will be much higher than that

BTW I am not saying that this is a problem for everyone, it just fixed my particular problem, so just putting it out there in case it can help others.

Cached memory is good! It means unused memory is used for increased performance to load programs much faster. This memory is released as needed if programs request more memory then is free at the time. When this happens, windows(or any decent OS) will decrease the amount memory allocated to file-caching and give it to the programs requesting more memory.

Currently i have about 3.9gbyte of cached memory and 2.7gbyte's of memory still unallocated at all.

Strange,

vista is working here 100% with superfetch on. On systems with lots of memory it does makes things faster. Windows7 is the same OS as vista, behind the gui it is the same as vista so i recommend to stop super fetch only if you are having issue's with it.

Actually i am running vista now with directx 11 installed And again i have no issue at all with lfs.


edit: also i do not notice heavy background use of the harddrive. And i do have an noisy "enterprise"-class sata disk which is really noisy compared to disks aimed at home-users. Noisy is relative though, there must be no sound at all in the room to be able to hear it.

The standaard question i always have to ask: Is it not the virus software causing problems? Is windows fully updated? Are all drivers updated including chip-set drivers? No programs running which are aimed at cleaning up stuff windows just have put there? etc.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:06.

Quote from boothy :

The only hand gesture I want http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCij9mYIokA

Hej that's how we drive in lfs!!! fighting so hard usually in the pack with a result nobody finishes

Quote from Scawen :

But LFS should never crash.

I think the ALT+TAB (etc) problems are just in some version of Windows, where after using ALT+TAB (if I remember correctly) Windows seemed to give LFS zero CPU time - it was never updated so you would lose connection if you were connected to a host. I don't know if that is still a problem but anyway there should not be a crash.

In vista 64 bits, its no problem. LFS is rendered in a tiny view from the taskbar, rather cool to watch those tiny cars going around while lfs is minimized hehe.

Quote from rc10racer :

What's your OS? because on vista/W7 but mainly windows i sometimes have the issue where the windows experience performance tool (WinSAT.exe) starts in the background which can cause stupid fps drop but under my experience it's worse then your problem.

WinSAT.exe?
I never have that one running in the background. Where do you turn on the option to get such a lousy program scheduled?

Note, i have been using vista for desktop for two years now, seen many, many accusations vista is to blame for slowiness. Then i remember the time windowsXP was just out and the first two/three years people always blamed the thing that was new.... Try to figure out what is configured wrong! Why is it starting and how you can stop windows from starting it.

(i don't like microsoft, i just need it OS to run games)

Quote from cmanns :

Hi, would it be possible to have control of the mouse? The throttle can hit too hard with mouse too quickly in turns and you gotta on/off click and that heats up the fronts, hard to keep the boost going, etc.

I love the XRR but it's very very difficult to compete w/mouse if I can't slow down max throttle control, so far it seems to take a sec or so to reach full throttle but it's just not enough delay....

XRT I can't drive AT ALL because it'll just slide out of control like it's wheels are ice blocks, any set.

XRG, etc are okay though the heavy throttle beats on the front tires after a lap or two I can't race w/out pit.

We need to think of a nifty method, maybe a button we can define to max throttle when pushed? IE: 50% when pushed, then throttle returns to normal after you corner or whichever. I use A for clutch and the mouse wheel for shifting (If you dont use that, ouch....) so pushing a button on the keyboard isnt a issue

Control with mouse is already to easy. Going fast/win is just very very difficult. Many mouse drivers do not have your tyre-heat problems. Well not more then anyone else.

Quote from Christof Blum :

When I use VSync I have a lag between real and virtual wheel. In every race-sim i tried it.

Is it only visual effect or does it affect physics too?

refresh-rate of 60Hz is low, so if a frame is just not ready to be displayed at a screen refresh, you will be shown the next frame about 1/60th of a second too late. Add to that the significant input-lag many lcd-screens have.... you might be lagging, in worst case, up to 5/60th of a second behind. Espacially many samsung lcd' s which are often notoriously slow. This lag is not caused by the leds in the lcd-panel, it is caused by the electronics in the monitor which send the signals to the lcd-panel.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Yes.

3) Vsync will cut your fps dramatically if you are for some reason not able to reach your monitor's refresh rate. Every time you dip below it your fps will be cut in half, so for example on 60Hz if you can't hold 60fps it will be cut to 30fps, if you can't reach that it will be cut to 15fps, etc.
4) Manual limitation should really only be used to relieve your graphics card

Overall, vsync should only be used if you notice tearing and you have a graphics card / CPU combo that can reliably hold your monitor's refresh rate in fps.

3: In al those years.. from the beginning at voodoo cards, s3 virge cards i have never noticed such behavior. If a frame is not ready when your screen is ready to receive, a 3d-engine will just wait for the refresh and display the frame as soon as possible. There is no intentional cut in fps. Although vsync will certainly reduce fps, but the devider by two?? no way! Well that said, there are so many programmers around the world, most likely there will be someone who managed to get this behavior out of his program And then its called a bug.

4: Limiting lfs to 100fps is a very efficient way to save energy. It also relieves your cpu. On fast systems it will save well over 50 watts of power. Certainly worth it.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:10.

Quote from morpha :

Ah, did some research. Apparently MS introduced a new display management layer with Vista, preventing the driver from "faking" a display, which is essentially what spanning does. Unfortunately, Seven also comes with this stupid management layer. In other words, if you've got Vista or Seven, you cannot use spanning modes. You can only use modes supported by an actual physical display, it's no longer possible to create a virtual display device and let the graphics adapter, or its driver respectively, handle the output.

duh, the driver/kernel changes in vista is a major improvement over XP and making vista a lot more stable. Windows 7 = vista with some gui updates.
So the graphics manfactures must write proper drivers to support multiple display's.
Although a product of microsoft and thus essentially total crap, for a microsoft product vista is really, really good compared to XP.

Quote from MijnWraak :

FPS problem: when turn button mode changed to classic style (2 buttons = 180 degrees) I get half of the max FPS when looking behind me, 30fps. I get constant 60 fps everywhere else with front/side view, only effects looking behind me. (phenom II x2 550 @ 3.8ghz, 4870 512, 1920x1080)

edit: it's a general FPS problem. Turned off vsync and it's only at about 60 most of the time. the 30 fps instance was looking behind while spectating someone, view had many barriers. I got much better FPS with z15.

Your frame rate is rather low for the given hardware, are you sure your graphics card settings isn't forcing v sync? 60fps is too low what you are getting out of your hardware.


However, the weird framerate drop using "classic 180 degrees lookback", i could reproduce the weird frame rate drop. I get from 300+ to 220-230fps as soon as i look backwards. passing of other cars seems not to make any difference. After about 1 second fps climbs back to 300+ Also just switching left/right seems sometimes to have a similar effect.

For me, this is not a problem but somebody using a 4630 card instead of a 4890 might have frame-rate issues because of this

When turning on lights, do you loose about 200watts of engine power? Or is it not yet programmed?

Patch test z16, as usual no problems whatsover.

Quote from Krypto1 :

Ok, im so confused right now, because i quited lfs about 3 years ago..and it was running normal..when i went to play again, the fps was so low O_o like when i get the camera inside the car i get low fps..even outside i cant play like i used to play ...i dont know if its because of the new stuff it was added to the game like crash colisions or new graphics...etc

Just saying that in the past i played normal and now i can't even play it..:cry:

some info on my system:
Pentium(R) 4 SP3
CPU 3.00 GHz
504 MB Ram, ( going to buy a 1 Gb ram soon)
Name of Motherboard: ASRock 775i65GV
DirectX: 9.0c
Video: Intel(R) 82865G Graphics Controller (96 MB) ( Can't afford a new one)
3D acelerator: Intel Extreme Graphics 2


it realy sucks to know that i could play it and now i can't..

Get a new system, your computer is severely outdated. today's 3.Ghz cpu's are up to 8 times faster.
You are using onboard graphics, avoid onboard graphiccards at all times for gaming! I recommend against buying anything new for such a old system.

I understand you don't have the money for upgrades, well... it looks like you need to start saving money then

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:53.

Quote from DejaVu :

This guy didnt even need a kerb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... 4mmSg&feature=related

Thx for this replay, proving tires are irl very, very grippy
(edit: And thus much better as many people here think)

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:06.

Quote from jakeeatworld :

Going back to what this thread is about:

HAHAHAHAAH your going to hate Rockinghams curbs mate!!!!

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/screenshots/ROK_FBM7.jpg

Formula one cars had very little trouble with such curbs at Monza. There are some nice replays of F1 cars going airborne because of those curbs and race happily after it without loss of time.

I jus fear, in the world of lfs this will be impossible and anyone who complains about it, will be told the world has to be according to lfs and should change like how things are programmed in lfs (sorry bit frustration about the past, everytime i said the tire-physics were not right...)

Quote from Bob Smith :

Road normals were never used online until road supers were remove from some cars. Allowing slicks would mean road tyres were never used online, even if servers could force restrictions. Which wastes the point of the development time put into road tyres and setups.

I think it is actually a load of crap to not have at least road-supers on a race-car.
What would you fit on your car if you go and race with it??

Actually today i replaced normal "high performance" road tires under my real car and got road supers on it. Muchhhhhhh better in dry AND wet weather, however the catch is the available grip in snowy conditions.
But in the dry and wet handling is also much, because the sidewalls are much stiffer, stiffer then the normal and super road tires in lfs. But the threads of my tires are actually very, very simular to the road supers of lfs.

So i think is it is very unrealistic NOT to have road supers available for any car suitable for public roads.

little illustration of how different grip can be between tires:
Some years ago i got hit bij a seat leon (build around 2002) from behind because i had literally less than half the braking distance of the car behind. That car had 2 months old regular tires from a well known french brand on his car... That bad are regular road tires.

Quote from Dalek0220 :

LFS's BMW Sauber is quite really the best. It's difficult to drive -- just like the real thing. With the TC off it's a beast, I can barely just accelerate away.

Problem being it doesn't have all the features the 2006 specification has.

The lfs modeling of grip is not 100% correct, especially the bf1 has more grip irl!

Quote from fireb0llch :

ok nvm, I reinstalled and installed Vista Ultimate 64 Bit. Dont have any problems now.

I dont want to be very annoying, but reinstalling a operating system is usually not a proper way to solve problems. Or do you know what went wrong?

btw: I am using vista sinds oktober 2007, zero problems ever with lfs or any other game.

I did have a simular problem, turned out to be the very new shiny cable supplied by the cable-compagny was defecticive causing link-downs on the router/cablemodem. Always after about 40-50 minutes. Using an old crap cable solved the problem.

I agree!!

that would be a nice new option.

Quote from dadge :

maybe they're like that to stop people cutting corners. seen the curbs at monza?

Yes i did, The 15cm high rubber edges didn't stop some drivers to drive full over it now and then.

Guess real cars are stronger then lfs makes you believe

Quote from tristancliffe :

I can't think of a Formula car with a fuel light...

No they might not have one, they do have a big crew of engineers checking every detail of the car, fuel -load, oil tempature, oil pressure, coolant temperature. Also, except for amateur series, full assistence in setting up the car, calculating what the dempers should be, calculating exactly what the wing settings must be, ride height brake-balance, etc.

Also those nice lcd-display's are able to display error-messages such as low-fuel, too high or too low tempatures anything the engineers have programmed into it.

gt-cars sometimes do have fuel light indicators and big ones too AND a pit-crew also watching the same thing..

We have none of that in lfs, so fuel low light indicator or a simulated pit-crew telling you are running low on fuel whatever doesn't strike me as being unrealistic even for a formula-series car.

"There should be adjustable and more realistic traction control"

Agree! but already suggested 93482594 times before, the tc in lfs currently only limits slip. Good tc-systems irl are a lot better then that, so much better you can put your foot down to the metal eh carbon-fiber on any corner-exit and you will never oversteer with a really good tc-system.

I ike the idea!! Of wr without tc!!
I am expecting a lot of the new tire-physics, since the bf1 is right now more diffecicult on corner exit then real f1 cars. They had then and now a lot more grip on corner exit then in lfs. In F1 they floor it in just over 110-130km/h while still exiting the corner, don' t try that in lfs lol